As you know by now, language matters. The words you choose and the tone you convey impress your audience in particular ways. Some of these effects can be learned and anticipated – to be used on purpose (logos, pathos, ethos) – and others will occur accidentally, unintended as “meaning” but meaningful nonetheless.
mrcapatiiller wrote about being quoted poorly, “I think my response was taken out of context or not very well used as I was just expressing my frustration” (random act of kindness, “we are all researching to fight for something” Comment 18).
It was one of those (damn!) unspecified pronouns that got us (me as writer, you as audience, and mrcapatiller as source) in trouble. The direct, exact, quote included an unspecified pronoun, which I ‘filled in’ with the referents that the context seemed to indicate. Some students read an equation of ‘legalization of marijuana’ being somehow ‘equal’ with ‘Hawaiian independence.’ I read the original statement as frustration and thought that the context of the paragraph in which I wrote clearly indicated the comparison I was making between those feeling optimism (social change is possible), those experiencing disbelief (Hawai’i is not a state of the U.S.?!), and the few who admitted a sense of helplessness.
One of the decisions you need to make as a writer is whether you want to want to understand the role of your words in a larger conversation. mrcapatiller’s statement by itself, in the bit published in response to an assignment, became important through its contrast with other statements.
Now, here is the original quote in its entirety. Do you see the context? and the problem in quoting it?
Laws and Lawyers and Legislation and stuff like that make me want to go live in the woods, much like how my project is making me feel. There is just so much red tape to everything these days u cant just kill someone with a bigger stick and say tough shit its my way now. I mean I’m not very big but I still think I’d be happier with our legal system if it worked that way. I feel bad for the Hawaiian nationalists that want to free Hawaii from America just like I feel bad for myself for wanting to legalize pot because it wont ever happen even though it is so obviously the right thing to do. maybe I’ll just go get a big stick and tell the Hawaiians to join me.
~ mrcapatiller, November 6, 2007
And, my citation in context:
unknown29 wrote “research is a really important step in writing…if we want to write something purposeful we have to do good research and apply the rhetorical situation to it” (comment #5). pbandjelly noted, “Everything that was presented with evidence…The speakers knew their case very well and any question that was asked of them they had a quick comeback and good support for waht they had to say” (comment #2).
mrcapatiller, though, is bumming: “Laws and Lawyers and Legislation and stuff like that make me want to go live in the woods….because it [Hawaiian independence, legalization of marijuana) wont ever happen even though it is so obviously the right thing to do” (comment #6).
Why is mrcapatiller’s response so different than mjolliner89, who claims: “It was a relief to see the success of their hard work and solid belief. This case gives me … the knowledge that with earnest and quality research, lives can be changed (comment #12).
Stephanie Jo Kent, November 6, 2007
So now, what options? Could I have written it differently? Could you (readers) have read what I wrote differently? Could the original author have written differently? Of course any of these changes “could” have been, but they weren’t, and so – in that situation – what do we do next? What do we (you!) learn from this that you can share as advice or observation for me and each other?
Thursday November 15, 2007 at 11:59 am
I think that mrcapatiller’s frustration comes from a feeling of being mocked. Maybe instead of asking why his response is so different that mjolliner89’s (which is the optimistic one) you should have said something along the lines of “Some students empathized with the Hawaiians and understand their long and difficult road to independence.” Then after that you could quote mr. capatillar and it would be a presentation of a different idea instead of a comparison.
I can see it your way, too…that it is just an example of another set of ideas and emotions.
I’m not quite sure what the “next step” in this situation would be—likely I would contact the author either in a forum or individually (somewhat like this) and explain my thinking and why I chose to quote the author in such a way.
Personally, I’m going to make sure that I use quotes for what they are intended to be used for. It really shows here that when you are not careful in paraphrasing and proper usage, it can cause a negative response from the original speaker and potentially other members of the audience.
Thursday November 15, 2007 at 12:00 pm
I think that this reading serves to help us undertsand the power of diction and representation of our work. Because every person has the ability to read the same piece so differently it is always important to think of one’s audience. And although we as writers may undertsand our writing we need to make sure that the people reading it do as well. There are so many ways to write the same statement but it is always best to write to a specific audience to try and make a connection with them–which will ultimately make your piece more enticing and interesting
Thursday November 15, 2007 at 5:34 pm
I think this a great example of how the words you are trying to say can be interpreted in so many ways. You need to note the position each person is in. The writer needs to express themselves clearly and the audience needs to try and see where the writer is coming from rather than interpret it for their own benefit. If they are able to empathize and know how it feels on both ends of the spectrum then it would be a much more organized system.
Thursday November 15, 2007 at 5:41 pm
This blog teaches us about the importance of word choice, and how it can make the biggest difference. When we write, we know what we are saying but that may not be the case for the readers which is probably why we do not notice how words can change meaning. I will definitely try to be more aware of these things in my writing, making sure that my wording is accurate and is the best way to say something, especially on sensitive topics.
Friday November 16, 2007 at 1:16 am
A good writing may make a lot of effects; a good writing may change some society problems; or a good writing may affect the world. A good writing is a powerful tool to influnce people’s souls and thoughts. It is more powerful than a video or documantary film. Because different people may see the writing differently, they may read the writing during different mood or different understanding, then the writing will totally change its meaning.
Monday November 19, 2007 at 8:00 pm
I feel like a proper piece of writing is indeed one where all sides of the arguement are presented and where the authors can totally express themselves. A big part of the issue here is the idea of word choice and how the authors’ statements come across and are presented, and I feel that for the most part the author who re-wrote the quotes did a good job of expressing what the original writer wanted to convey in their statements, although the only thing to note when you re-write something is to make sure not to slight the original author in any way. The way something is expressed is that at its core, and care needs to be taken into consideration when one is writing anything from another’s point of view or summing their arguments or views up.
Tuesday November 20, 2007 at 2:26 pm
Steph could have written it differently, but thats the power of writing. We choose what we want to put down on paper so we can use it to our own advantage. Readers that read stephs writing cannot read it different because we only see part of it. The original author could have written it differently to, however it doesn’t matter how he writes it because steph can go back to it and use what he wrote again to her own advantage. With these we can learn that writing is a very powerfool tool and that sometime a pen can really be more powerful than a gun.
Tuesday November 20, 2007 at 5:16 pm
MrCapatillar has a right to express his frustration over being misquoted, because the blog breezed over his actual point, that “There is just so much red tape to everything these days u cant just kill someone with a bigger stick and say tough shit its my way now.” Instead the blog focused on sub-points such as legalizing marijuana that MrCapatillar used to support his main point. It is difficult to mold someone else’s words into your own ideas, and this is just an example of one writer making assumptions and twisting another writers original intent.
Tuesday November 20, 2007 at 5:20 pm
I agreed with that language does matters. Many people have different language, different pronunciation or different way to interpret themselves in different languages. As I as a writer, we should be more clarify our sentences and words more than anyone else-audiences. But we also need to make sure audience can understand our sentences. Different interpretation can be understand different way, different meaning. Sometimes it was a good way to reference those different ways of understanding.
Tuesday November 20, 2007 at 5:24 pm
Steph could have written it differently and we can all interpret her writing differently. That’s writing in the big picture. People can take in what they choose to when reading something, and writers can put out what they choose when writing. It’s all about opinions, ideas, interpretations, framing, and most importantly, CHOICE.
Tuesday November 20, 2007 at 5:40 pm
I understand where mrcatiiller is coming from about being misinterpreted. I try to explain things a lot and they get taken the wrong way. It is kind of frustrating. I guess that we just really have to think before we speak.
Tuesday November 20, 2007 at 5:45 pm
This example shows me the dilemma i find in religious debates all the time. As Steph says, “words you choose and the tone you convey impress your audience in particular ways”. And those words can be misused either maliciously or accidentally. In the same way, the meanings of those words can be misused and misinterpreted. As a Lutheran, I believe in the infallibility of scripture and I believe that the Bible is the only rule and guide for the Church.
The Bible is God’s inerrant and
infallible Word, in which He reveals His Law and His Gospel of
salvation in Jesus Christ. It is the sole rule and norm for Christian
doctrine.
To interpret scripture, that interpretation cannot contradict any other part of scripture otherwise is is a flawed interpretation. In our human writing however it is easy to write one thing and mean another. We must therefore be conscious of other peoples meanings. If one sentence can mean two things but one meaning is completely unrelated to the other content then we much assume they meant the other.
Tuesday November 20, 2007 at 6:20 pm
I can see why mrcapatiller would be angry that there was a misinterpretation with the way Steph quoted his blog, however, he has to realized that his blog is open for anyone to read, and anyone to quote. It is possible for someone to quote his work and make it seem as though he is saying something completly different. I remember Steph said something about how the confrence she is attending in Isreal is not welcomed by some, because of quotes taken out of context. If our work isn;t copywrited then there is really nothing we can do when it is quoted in a way we dislike.
Sunday November 25, 2007 at 7:11 pm
It is very interesting how what you say can mean so many things based on your tone, body language, and the sitiation you are in. In writing you can not see the person who wrote it so the writing needs to be very clear to the reader so that they know what you are writing about.
Tuesday November 27, 2007 at 3:02 pm
I think this blog is bringing out the point that one’s writing can be interpreting in many many ways. When we write we often assume that others follow exactly what we are saying, when in fact readers may be thinking the opposite. As a writer we need to be open to the fact that readers may interpret a piece differently from others.
Tuesday November 27, 2007 at 5:51 pm
A good writing can explain everything in a differnt way and with a different meaning.I agree when Steph said the lauguages matters and in fact, it does.No matter what kind of languages that you are using, for example,Body language or different language other than English, still languages matters on everything.If you want to use languages to explain things well, be sure to make it clear.
Thursday November 29, 2007 at 2:18 pm
I think this conversation among the freshmen will be very useful to me when I am writing my final paper. A problem I have always had with writing is that I use too many pronouns and it becomes unclear what I am talking about. Unknown29 says “Steph could have written it differently, but thats the power of writing.” This isn’t a statement I particularly agree with and I will have to keep this in mind as I write about my chosen topic. I think it is important to quote authors in the way the author originally intended. I will have to be careful to interpret everything correctly and not twist or skew the meanings of things so that they fit the point I am trying to make.
White78c says “Many people have different language, different pronunciation or different way to interpret themselves in different languages.” This is a very important point. Subtle differences in word choice can change the entire meaning of a statement. I will need to be very careful about the words I use to describe my thought process, so that I can successfully convey the point I am trying to get across.
Thursday November 29, 2007 at 2:23 pm
It is very important that when writing you choose your words wisely. If not then you stand the chance of being interpreted incorrectly similar to mrcapatiiller. This is the fault of the bloger because they didn’t carefully use logos, pathos, and ethos. They didn’t consider what the audience might get from this text. While we can pin the blame on the writer it may also be the fault of the reader. Like PBandJelly21 says, “The writer needs to express themselves clearly and the audience needs to try and see where the writer is coming from rather than interpret it for their own benefit”. This a retorical situation where both the audience, and the author are involved. My suggestion to mrcapatiiller is they they try reading their writing from the point of view of a random reader while I also suggest that the reader put themselves in the shoes of the writer. If both parties do this, then there will no longer be any frustration due to a blog being taken out of context.
Thursday November 29, 2007 at 2:23 pm
seems like a very classic case of miscommunication. I think there are several levels on which you can attempt to prevent miscommunication like this. I have to note, however, that no matter how many steps you take to prevent miscommunication, shit happens. But, the easiest thing to do is to re-read your comment/blog before you post it. I’m sure you all suffer from the same problem: your mind moves way faster than your typing. This inevitably leads to bad grammar and ideas/concept getting left out completely. It’s never safe to assume that people actually know what you’re trying to say.
Another problem that comes up from time to time is that people tend to use blogs the rant/vent, which pretty much always leads to miscommunication, because one’s ideas/concepts are not fully developed in a rant/vent. I find it better to save rants as draft, read them the next day, and then re-write them. They still have plenty of punch, and you’re also more likely to get noticed if you’re behaving “correctly.”
Just my 2 cents…
Thursday November 29, 2007 at 2:25 pm
I think the first year writers are saying that writing can be interpreted in many ways, I agree with wright5 when he says:
“It is very interesting how what you say can mean so many things based on your tone, body language, and the situation you are in.”
What you say is only a peice of the information. That is why writing in a way that makes the reader understand is so crucial but can be very difficult as well. As a writer you have to pretend that you know nothing about the ideas you are writing about, it always makes sense in our own minds as the writer. When writing my research paper I am going to choose the words that I write carefully to try and get my points across in a way that is clear, and not open for interpreting their meaning.
Thursday November 29, 2007 at 2:28 pm
I agree with apple23 when they say, “I understand where mrcatiiller is coming from about being misinterpreted”.(Comment #10) Sometime I to believe that my work is misinterpreted as well. It seems that when a writer has a message in their brain that seems clear, to others it is scrampled. This could be because the reader misinterpereted the contect of your piece, read it incorrectly, or can not understand the pieces that you are trying to draw together. I agree with Pylee when they say “I agree when Steph said that language matters” (Comment #16) In fact language does matter when expressing to someone that may not understand the language that you are clearly trying to express. To agree or not agree with someone’s work all depends on the language and that to me is the underlying question of everyones work. Will my audience interpert my work the way I mean’t it????
Thursday November 29, 2007 at 2:29 pm
No writer wants to be taken out of context, but it can happen with just about every writing you do. mr. capatiller had a right to be frustrated by being misquoted, but it’s also mr. capatiller’s job to make sure his writing is clear enough where it’s hard to misquote it. That’s a problem all of us will be facing when writing our final paper. We’re doing this to make a point about something, to educate an audience, and to educate ourselves. We will have to dig deep into our research so we understand thoroughly what we are writing about and making sure our context is clear. Even if I’m misquoted in my final paper, I hope that I know enough about my subject to thoroughly reply to the misquotation, and clear the air. Being thoroughly educated on your topic has a lot to do with the way you write, as your writing usually flows better when you know more about the subject. The research you do and the way you relate your knew knowledge on paper will be the ultimate factor on how an audience will receive your final product.
Thursday November 29, 2007 at 2:30 pm
This article shows the problems when writing papers and having an audience read and even respond. With the example of mrcapatiller, it is seen how words can mean different things to different people. PBandjelly21 says, “I think this a great example of how the words you are trying to say can be interpreted in so many ways”(comment3) and
e388 says “his blog teaches us about the importance of word choice, and how it can make the biggest difference”(comment4). Both of these quotes should help others to see that in future writing it is important for writers to really be aware of diction. it is important to approach a piece of writing not just from what you as the writer wants to say but also from a persepective of how the audience will understand it.
for mrcapatiller he experienced this first hand. while he meant it to mean one thing, a reader made a different connection. This could happen in any situation. even if the author wrote exactly what he meant, anyone can take it and quote him in a different context. I don’t see any way for this to ever change, as people will take quotes to further their own goals, whether they are deliberately trying to change the meaning or not.
keeping words as close to the original meaning as possible will hopefully keep misinterpretation at a minimum and leave less writers less frustrated by the end. Paying attention to the words used in writing is the one way to make sure that the audience understands what the authors intention was, and to keep quotes out of the wrong context. this is said by white78c, ” we also need to make sure audience can understand our sentences.” (comment 9)
Thursday November 29, 2007 at 2:35 pm
I think one of the problems that I will have when writing this paper, just as I always have, is the interpretation by the reader of what I write. Often I go on writing about a topic and feel as if I have written a clear piece and successfully expressed all I want to. When my papers are returned to me, after being graded by my professors, there are many times the grader missed my point. What seemed obvious to me was something confusing for the reader. Redsoxfan218 expresses the same feeling in their reply. “…every person has the ability to read the same piece so differently it is always important to think of one’s audience.” Word choice is very important. In technicalities Steph says, “The words you choose and the tone you convey impress your audience in particular ways. Some of these effects can be learned and anticipated – to be used on purpose (logos, pathos, ethos) – and others will occur accidentally, unintended as ‘meaning’ but meaningful nonetheless.” The words we choose when writing our papers can send both intended and unintended messages and therefore we must consider carefully the words we choose. In order for my paper to have the best result, it must be interpreted in its intended way.
Thursday November 29, 2007 at 2:46 pm
Mrcapatiller is great. I like the way he writes and his ideas. He is comparing the way the government is run to a government of killing your neighbors with sticks, and thinks the sticks are better. NOW THAT IS MAKING A STATEMENT! Too bad to actually get credit he needs to work on his grammar and writing structure, blah, blah, blah. As redsoxfan218 mentions, “The power of diction,” has more of a representation of his ideas than his ideas themselves. Wright5 says, “It is very interesting how what you say can mean so many things based on your tone, body language, and the situation.” Great thinkers communicate their ideas in entirely different ways. Look at Einstein, or Churchill, or even Bill Cosby. They don’t speak or write with completely perfect diction, most of the most powerful ideas they have brought up probably looked like something that they and the people around them, contextually speaking, would understand. Just like Mrcapatiller did.
Thursday November 29, 2007 at 2:50 pm
The first year students are asked to respond to another one of Steph’s blogposts, and so are we. This post is addressing our ongoing trouble with language and grammar in our writing. This has always been a low point and challenge in my writing; I can’t get around it. Redsoxfan218 says, “I think that this reading serves to help us understand the power of diction and representation of our work. Because every person has the ability to read the same piece so differently it is always important to think of one’s audience.” Diction can be very confusing. For example, the writer of a blog or any essay can use the word “it” to describe something that was previously said. It can make perfect sense in their mind, since the writer knows what is [trying] to be said. To the teacher, the interpretation can vary. Steph has illustrated the need to include three main elements in our writing: logos, pathos, and ethos, which help to make sense of what we are saying. If we use these elements (logos, pathos, and ethos) we are able to establish an audience in any rhetorical situation. This may possibly eliminate the miscommunications that we suffer from in class.
Thursday November 29, 2007 at 2:55 pm
Mr. capatiller and pbandjelly have two very different viewpoints of the Larson case. It seems to me that mr. capatiller didn’t pay attention to the movie because Hawaii did claim its independence. Their independence is not nationally known because the media kept the case a very quiet event in the U.S.
Diction is very important. Mr. capatiller’s comment was very confusing because he was not specific with his words and it was very scattered to the point where his words became confusing and his statement was very broad.
Redsoxfan218 states (comment #2), that “…every person has the ability to read the same piece so differently it is always important to think of one’s audience”. This is very important for me, especially, to remember because I have the habit when I write to be very vague and broad. I need to give myself boundaries like an audience. Hopefully, if I focus on diction in my research paper I can narrow down my research and find the appropriate comments to fully support my reason for researching my topic.
Thursday November 29, 2007 at 2:58 pm
The way we use words, context, diction, even word use all effect the way ourwork is interpreted. This is a concept we have been dancing around for awhile, and also something we all already pretty much knew. If people treated their writing how they treated their speech, writing would not be too complicated. When you give a speech, you want to know who it is that you’re talking to, and then you use your knowledge of them to construct a speech that would be most beneficial and interesting to them. You put emphasis on words you want emphasized, you use body language and facial expressions to add more meaning to your words. Writing can be very much the same thing, but instead of body language and voice control you have spaces, punctuation, and the power of not having a physical face to the reader (making you into anything they want you to be). But with this lack of physical representation, comes a price. You must be able to truly use your abilities as a writer to paint the best picture you can without the help of your physical voice and self. As Ciaobellla says so well, “Confusion and misinterpretation is a hard concept to dodge. Connected by a single gun.
Thursday November 29, 2007 at 5:36 pm
This blog post gets me thinking about how I am going to turn my annotated bibliography and ideas in my head into an actual piece of work that people can read and hopefully understand the points I am trying to make about the news media. My topic is one that many people are very familiar with, especially in the communication department. I looked to the freshman in this blog to see what advice I could find in their responses and moreover, what they are saying about diction, language, and interpretation. PBandJelly21 states, “I think this a great example of how the words you are trying to say can be interpreted in so many ways. You need to note the position each person is in.” This brings up the basic point that one needs to understand what you are saying by making your paper concise and organizing it to the point where it has an even flow and direction. Metalcircus goes on to say, “No writer wants to be taken out of context, but it can happen with just about every writing you do.” They bring up a good point about trying hard to make a point that seems to fail time and time again. How do we go about making sure this doesn’t happen? All good opinion and editorial pieces I believe present both sides of the argument and make sure they have backup to support the points that they set out to make. Without it, you will most certainly be taken out of context. You don’t want the reader to have to do too much work. shorty736 writes “The way we use words, context, diction, even word use all effect the way ourwork is interpreted.” This is where I begin to think about what we’ve done in the wiki and class. We’ve been told to ask a lot of questions, think about things in a new way- and it has all led (maybe just for me) however, it has all led to more questions and ramblings. It is very hard to then make a concrete paper from ideas which hit the reader in exactly the way you want them. Especially if you are the kind of writer who does not deal with guidelines and borders in the best way. Rather, you might be the type of writer who likes to just write what they are thinking.
In my own opinion, I think the joy of being a writer is to write things and let people decide for themselves what they mean. It allows people to use their imaginations and come up with their own viewpoints while hearing someone state theirs.
Thursday November 29, 2007 at 9:29 pm
I think it’s very important to research and analyze the audience of any work one creates. Will the audience be judging you? Do they already have a predisposition towards you? As Carmella7 so emphatically points states the truth, “Will my audience interpert my work the way I mean’t it????” These are some of the questions that are racing through in my mind as I start writing my draft for my final paper. After all, do we know as a class that Steph is going to be the only one to read our paper, or are there other parties as well? As a creator of a piece of work, one should try to identify with the audience and speak in their language first and foremost. This identification will help draw the reader into your piece of work on a more positive note. This is all part of the process of Communicating where a party gives info. and the other party listens and gives back info.
Monday December 3, 2007 at 6:30 am
In reference to my annotated bibliographies, I will use those sources that strengthen my argument to my advantage. Slightly similar to what Steph did. Although she could have quoted him a little differently, the syntax she used was used to create a stronger contrast between mrcapatiller and mjolliner89. As PBandJelly21 says,”this a great example of how the words you are trying to say can be interpreted in so many ways.” I think my initial reaction to mrcapatiller probably has to do more with him using the word “obviously” along with my attitude towards marijuana. Hawaiians are making a strong attempt to preserve their master identity and kingdom, yet the parallel being drawn is to the legalization of a substance that if not used for medicinal purposes, in my opinion, shouldn’t be used at all. Last time i checked people have died from being under the influence of marijuana (while driving, etc.), but what harm is being caused in being Hawaiian? I think a comparison using “present day issues” should have been made to something that is neutral, not something with a negative reputation. This just shows how one word can effect a reader’s attitude regardless of the author’s intention. I must be concise in my research and in my writing to assure that my point comes across the way I intend.
Tuesday December 4, 2007 at 2:43 am
“This blog teaches us about the importance of word choice and how it can make the biggest difference”, says e388 (e388, technicalities, comment 4). Earlier in the class Steph talked about how many of our writings were one draft away from a coherent response. I interpreted this as meaning that to write well, reading and rereading your own writing (ideally with some time between the first reading and further readings, giving yourself plenty of time before the assignment’s due date) encourages cohesion and time for contemplation. I am slow writer, so I see my struggle laying in having little time to flesh out several drafts, eventually choosing the best words to provide the best clarity.
Tuesday December 4, 2007 at 9:42 am
“The words you choose and the tone you convey impress your audience in particular ways. Some of these effects can be learned and anticipated – to be used on purpose (logos, pathos, ethos) – and others will occur accidentally, unintended as “meaning” but meaningful nonetheless.” I think that one of the challenges that I will face, which i usually face when writing a long paper, is that I have a hard time maintaining the same tone throughout the paper. I am aware that certain parts of my argument are stronger than others, but does that mean I have to shift the tone, or does that accidentally happen out of habit? Meaningfulness of an argument is important, but i think it is also important to be consistant when it comes to the tone and perspective that you take when writing a paper, and especially with long papers, i tend to find it difficult to maintain throughout.
Tuesday December 4, 2007 at 1:47 pm
Obviously, the original writer could have written his statement differently. However, his meaning and message are both still very clear. It is the job of the person who wishes to quote the original writer to directly interpret the text as it was written. What you have done here is misrepresented the text and misquoted the original writer.
Personally, I read your statement in one way and in one way only. Unfortunately (and fortunately in every other case) your writing is extremely clear and usually well thought out. I think the next step forward is to remark upon the past, as is being done now, and then to move forward with the knowledge.