Ok – the fishbowl accomplished much (even though there was no formal decision-making process since we got started with it so late in the session).
Defining the target audience was the first task taken up by Fishbowl K. Instead of aiming “out” to a particular demographic of any kind, the proposal was made to imagine ourselves as the audience. No formal decision-making process was undertaken on this point, however the theme was raised several times in a variety of ways. Also repeated often was the need to form smaller working groups, divvy up the labor, and get going already! (I exaggerate the urgency for effect; the energy seemed more tired than actually impatient.)
Target: “us as a group working together,” “what we put together shows us; will show what we have learned,” “if the scope is narrow, we increase the chance of success,” “breaking down into smaller pieces doesn’t mean the audience will be smaller,” “other people will be looking at us,” “how I fit in, my affiliations,” “expressing our own niche,” “how we survived UMass – we are surviving it!” A 360° view.
Content is still a bit vague but we’re getting closer with the idea of everyone bringing in what has been their own personal main interests while here at UMass. The labeling still seems difficult, for instance “personal page” really isn’t intended to be like myspace or such. More like, “each of us represents a bigger group at UMass,” so find who you’ve got connections with in-class and work with the “dynamic among each other,” showing off our own diversity with a focus on how we work together.
Structure: didn’t get that much attention but some ideas were tossed out, such as imagining a format like a magazine, “the wiki itself [being] like a fishbowl,” and having a randomly generated ‘front page,’ like wikipedia. Debate was broached about whether we need to have a coherent scope before beginning subgroup work, or whether starting the subgroup work will lead us in the direction of a absolutely clear goal. It was suggested that a subgroup who is particularly interested in the content of the course could develop a mission statement of some kind, meanwhile individuals should make decisions within their subgroups.
Most students in the fishbowl seemed ready to shift the focus away from a primary concern with audience-as-someone-else to a more “inward” look at ourselves and each other. A question that was originally raised in the negative as a concern, “I don’t know what I can say to you about ____ that you don’t already know or would want to know,” could (?) be turned around to serve as some kind of measure for what to put in the wikiwebsite:
What do I want to say (tell, show, etc) to you (my groupmates) about
my life and learning here at UMass and/or in this class?
So far, I’ve emphasized the agreements and packaged them accordingly. A disagreement was aired concerning a narrowing of the target audience from incoming undergrads to just us. Several attempts were made to accommodate this view, including it being fine if anyone wants to focus on an external audience – this could be their thing. Doing so would represent part of the diversity of the group, and even be an illustration of things we’re learning in the class. Explanations were offered such as “not necessarily writing only to the class, because other people will still read” depending upon their interests. Each “page” (or each subgroup’s work) will draw certain audiences and other pages/work will appeal to different audiences. Someone argued that keeping the audience large would actually work against us being creative.
Finally, evaluation was brought up at the very end. Do you want to count hours as a way to assess quality of work? Is this a fair way to assign grades?
Wednesday April 2, 2008 at 11:29 am
My only concern so far is this:
I like the fact that people will specialize in something that they are particularly interested in. I just want to know how people get to choose 1. how many different sections there should be, 2. what the different sections should be, and 3. who gets to do each section (if there is too many people that want to do the same section).
Wednesday April 2, 2008 at 11:49 am
Great questions.
I also have one, concerning who has tech skill and how we should start with webdesign. A colleague has directed me to an open source content manager: joomla. Would this be a good tool for us?
I have a .mac account which I have not yet used…I don’t know if we gain or limit ourselves if we use apple instead of generic pc tools.
And, I own a couple of URLs, the reflexivity site is one of them. Would it make sense to set up this class’s work as an extension of that?
Finally, I have space on a local ISP (Vermont-based) that could be utilized, I think. What makes the most sense? Or, what do we have the skills to make the most use of?
Wednesday April 2, 2008 at 7:02 pm
Target Audience: I say this discussion is a waste of time. We seem to be pretty clear that we’ll be writing whatever interests us, let the chips fall where they may. I personally would not like doing it strictly for incoming freshman. We all share this campus, why limit it to just them, unless, of course, this is what interests you.
Breaking it down:
I agree we should be thinking about breaking things down. I propose we begin working on our pieces and then deal with the problems as they arise.
Having said that here are some committees I think would be useful;
HTML
Graphic designers/Photographers (take pictures, photoshop them, make banners, cover pages)
Editors
Writers
Steering
Steering directs where the collective is going. New problems will need to be dealt accordingly. If you have an idea on how to work this out, write out a proposal of how you want to go about that. Then you meet up with steering, discuss the pros and cons, fix it up and then bring that proposal to class for the group to decide. We’d have to choose an amount needed in order to pass proposal, where I’ve worked with 75% seems to work.
Voting options would be; for, against or stand aside. Stand aside means you don’t care either way and don’t want your vote entered into the total. So if there are 13 people in class you’d need 10 people to vote in favor, but if someone stood aside you’d only need 9 out of 12 people.
Evaluation:
We should wait out and see what sort of time investment is required for the different tasks, and decide appropriately how to make sure things are fair. Having a steering committee in place would make things a bit easier to make things official.
Wednesday April 2, 2008 at 7:04 pm
“If you have an idea on how to work this out, write out a proposal of how you want to go about that”
What I meant was:
If a problem arises and you have an idea on how to work it out, write out a proposal of how you want to go about that.
This wouldn’t be for every single problems, just larger ones that affect the entire group.
Wednesday April 2, 2008 at 7:55 pm
I think we should definitely focus on what interests US. In doing this, I believe we will come up with a much more well put together finished product, as often times people don’t really care about what they’re working on in typical college classrooms. I think that the notion of setting up different committees is a great idea, and also the idea of writing a proposal if you have a problem with the process. Instead of just sitting and dwelling on every problem that comes up with no clear solution in sight, the proposal idea would immediately put a concrete new idea to a vote. Especially where we are going to start running into time constraints with the end of the semester quickly approaching. A steering committee would be helpful to keep us in line and make sure we don’t stray too far off of our intended track. I just think we really need to look at the calendar and make some serious moves in the upcoming week because we’ve spent this whole semester thus far debating what to do and still have not begun to set up anything on the wiki. So let’s all agree that the time is winding down and make a decision for that sake, if that sake only.
Wednesday April 2, 2008 at 10:56 pm
I agree with the fact that we need to start moving on whatever it is we’re doing. I also like the idea of breaking the class into different “committees” that way people don’t get overwhelmed with all the decisions that are going to arise. I agree also with voting on certain important issues in order to “pass” them.
I think that people are starting to think about different ideas and we should start moving because other problems will definitely arise during the way. I like the idea of doing a group project and I think that considering we have about 30 people in the class (more than some small companies) if we all contribute in an effective way, we should be able to put something pretty good together.
As far as the content/design I think we should try and make this page for not only ourselves, but also for other students at UMass. This might not change what some people want to do though. We could have a “committee” that works with design to make the site easy to navigate. People who only want to do “personal pages” could still just do that and it wouldn’t be that hard to tie it into the overall site. Having an array of different ideas would actually benefit the diversity of the site.
I think the site should be on our own URL because it might make it easier to design. Also it would have an easier web address if people did visit it.
Wednesday April 2, 2008 at 11:46 pm
I do think that breaking up into groups would help us out a lot. I also think that we should nominate people for certain positions like, have a leader of discussion, who can just keep things regulated, and make sure everyone gets to say what they want. Also a recorder, someone to keep track of all the things we decide to do. and from that we can figure out how many groups we are going to have. We can also figure out how many subjects are going to be written about, like, a sports section, music, film, etc.
once we are in those definite groups, each group can design their own section. Figure out how to put it on the wiki page, and decide what it will look like.
Maybe someone can be in charge of the main page as well? Figure out how to organize all of these links, and other pages that are going to be a part of the page. If we are going to have a magazine style main page, etc.
i’m excited to see how this will turn out. I think it will work out, and that dividing into groups will hopefully make decision making easier.
Thursday April 3, 2008 at 1:01 am
I think we have to start determining who has skills at what, and what skills we can use to benefit this process. The wiki is going to involve a lot of people using their diverse skills to complete the collective goal. There will probably be some aspects of the wiki that are going to be tougher than we think. We will need some “leaders” to step up to the plate and answer the call of these challenges.
Thursday April 3, 2008 at 8:06 am
Great! We are building some cohesion around next steps. Those of you yet to post, it would be great if you could build onto or refine any of the suggestions made already (instead of offering similar ideas in your own words, do you know what I mean?)
Of course, PLEASE keep adding clarifications, new strategies, and questions we need to address.
Thursday April 3, 2008 at 10:20 am
I feel as if we had a successful fishbowl last class, and that it spurred student to offer many diverse and helpful contribution ideas for our project. In my opinion, no formal decision making process was undertaken because of or failed attempt last time (it didn’t produce many results- except for some angered people and it didn’t produce the outcome we had voted on..were still storming!) that is why I (personally) steered clear of actually making a consensual and formal decision. I feel as if Steph noted some really important aspects of the project that were suggested during the fishbowl within her post. I have been trying to promote and communicate the idea that what we create in fact does show who we are and where we are coming from (frames), which is a main and really important lesson learned from this class. I also appreciate the fact that Steph noted the misunderstanding of my suggestion of a “personal page” format (what should I have called it, I’m still not sure…..)- I hope I was able to explain myself more thoroughly within the fishbowl. As for the ideas posted- so many of them are great and can fit hand in hand as we continue moving forward. Fresh’s ideas certainly stuck out to me because it seems as if she is focusing on how to most successfully go forward at this moment: “I also think that we should nominate people for certain positions like, have a leader of discussion, who can just keep things regulated, and make sure everyone gets to say what they want. Also a recorder, someone to keep track of all the things we decide to do. and from that we can figure out how many groups we are going to have.” Sedona and King’s posts also mention similar ideas: Sedona suggests that “Having a steering committee in place would make things a bit easier to make things official.” King also notes a similar concept: “A steering committee would be helpful to keep us in line and make sure we don’t stray too far off of our intended track.” This concept is incredibly beneficial because I feel that as a group we have become more than aware of the confusion and difficulties that come along with not having specified roles as we try to collaborate. My main suggestion thus far is that I don’t think we should break into “content groups” (e.g. Art, Music, Sports, Extra Curricular Activities) until we break into these sort of “process groups.”
Thursday April 3, 2008 at 7:33 pm
It seems as though people have locked in to this idea of committees. We’re also still discussing the target audience, if there should even be one. The steering committee is popular on this post, and rightfully so. A group our size cannot function without order. As I read and view the discussions and progressions of ideas, I constantly think how much more efficient our group would have been if we had developed a work structure from day one. A leader, or a subgroup that was charged with command decisions, would have gotten things rolling much, much faster. We have essentially circled this notion (the need for order, delegation of tasks, etc.) for weeks now, without having acted. We are now approaching the tail end of the semester, and thus the pressure is on. This brings up another key element missing: deadlines. Had we set deadlines for work or decisions to be completed, we would not be talking about these same matters over and over again. Part of this is due to Steph’s internal control over our group processes, steering us away from order and towards endless discussion. I can’t blame her for this, she’s the boss, and I assume she prefers the developing of dynamics to the efficiency of our work. I just hope we can finally act on all the structures we have been talking about and get something done.
Friday April 4, 2008 at 5:43 am
I agree that there should be a steering committee to keep track on what’s going on in different groups. I also agree with everyone that we have to get moving because time is running out. There will be less time for us to build the page if we keep on deciding what content to put on the wiki. Sedona1’s suggestion on voting is a good idea. We should use this voting technique in making decisions that needed to be vote by the class. In that case, voting won’t waste half of the class time on deciding whether the stand aside votes should be counted or not.
Friday April 4, 2008 at 10:37 am
I agree what freshkicks was saying.
When we discuss the direction of the project we should have a facilitator, note taker, stack person (raise your hand, they write your name down and call you when it’s your turn) and a time keeper. You can avoid the stack if you have a direct response to someone’s question, or if you have information to clarify an uncertainty or misunderstanding, or a “point of order”.
Each committee is alloted a set amount of time where they discuss what they accomplished that week, and what they plan to do by the next week’s class. If they will be discussing a particular issue that will require more time to talk with the group, they tell the facilitator and set it on the agenda. Once they run out of time stack will be closed unless the group decides it is imperative to further discuss the issues. Sometimes discussion is fuzzy and too long because there are some glitches or holes in a plan, in that case the agenda can be brought up the next week after the committee has cleared things up out of class.
Note taker for this week would be facilitator for the next week, this way we keep people rotating and give different people opportunity to participate and keep things fresh.
Facilitator’s job would be to maintain order, to maintain focus on the agenda at hand and lead discussion on the topics that will be discussed.
Friday April 4, 2008 at 5:17 pm
About evaluation, I was thinking that gaging everyone contributions by an hour log is a bad idea. People work at different speeds. Someone could spend a long time on something that deserves less recognition than something that took a short while to produce. Also, is this discussion even worth having? When were we told we get to evaluate ourselves? Maybe for one of our test questions we could write which parts of our page are weak and evaluate based on those results.
I agree with everyone that we need to get moving. Ehanft mentioned deadlines. It would be good to get the bulk of the work out of the way before it becomes the end of May. We don’t need this added stress. I also agree with Ehanft that this really would have moved along better if we had some order. In particular, we really need a concrete idea. We still don’t have this. It seems like we are pressing on in spite of this fact and I’m wondering if it is going to work out of as well as everyone is hoping.
It is a good idea to have someone in charge, as described in this “steering committee.” However I feel like this is a lot of responsibility for these people. They basically have the job of trying to structure everyone’s interests into one page. We have been working on this for weeks and have been unsuccessful.
On the other hand, if a small group of individuals are in charge maybe things will go smoother. At least one idea can be implanted if there is a small group of individuals handing out commands.
On Monday lets start dishing out roles.
Friday April 4, 2008 at 9:39 pm
I agree with princess3 comment on determining and identifying the different skills people have. This step will help identify those who are comfortable performing a certain task. Breaking people into skilled groups will accelerate the process. I’m not suggesting that we should rush the project but, i believe that we have reached a stage where people who be able to focus on what they are skilled in.
How does everyone feel about the idea of breaking up into specialty groups?
Saturday April 5, 2008 at 10:56 am
I think people have been making some really constructive suggestions. I think having a steering committee could be a good idea. It seems obvious now that we’re all craving infrastructure. Subcommitees based on our talents and skills I think is also a good idea. Maybe we can devote some class soon to deciding how this process should go – and then actually doing it.
One concern I have it this: I wouldn’t want us to produce anything redundant. I spent some time looking at the umass wiki today. I did some searches for things we were interested in writing about and they were missing from the wiki, but other things were there. There is a section about local restaurants, bars/clubs, greek life, etc. I think we should all take some time to see if what we’re interested in hasn’t already been tackled in the umass wiki. And then, even if it has – many of those articles are “stubs” – would a member of our class feel satisfied adding to pre-existing articles? How affiliated with the rest of the umass wiki do we want to be? In some way integrating our ideas into that wiki might help us overcome some of our problems: audience for example. Does what we produce have to be a separate entity? I think it might be really cool to put our ideas into a preexisting resource that already has some sort of audience and frame. Anyway… just an idea.
Saturday April 5, 2008 at 2:43 pm
I Agree that we are making progress, I think the fishbowl on Monday was very productive..FINALLY! I like the idea about getting into groups that are centered around different interests. Vertabralsilence, makes a good point that the Wiki already has a section on Restaurants, clubs etc…Maybe we could expand on these if some of the areas resources are not already covered on the Wiki? I still feel unsure about where my contribution will fit in? I would love to hear more about my classmates ideas perhaps in class on Monday. So far I’ve heard about pottery and maybe filming this and local activities that are going on. I also think that we need some leaders in our group dynamics class, I think this would help to continue our process and growing as a group
Saturday April 5, 2008 at 3:12 pm
The ideas raised in class have all been creative and dynamic, but I think many of my peers have the right idea when they call for the institution of definitive jobs in order to guide the collective. It seems we have the tools necessary to continue, we are just in need of some authoritative cohesion within the group to be able to direct the flow from here on out. My only fear concerning the issue is that we may waste more valuable time deciding which person is designated for each job, rather than attacking the wiki head on. At any rate, I agree with Thumpasaurus – “On Monday let’s start dishing out roles.”
I don’t think I’m being presumptuous when I say that a major issue for al of us is grading. As some of my classmates agree, I don’t think it’s appropriate in this situation to gauge our individual work hourly. Grades should be determined by the outcome of an individual’s work, or if the project wasn’t completed, how hard they tried. I know in college it can be hard to apply the “it’s the effort that counts” schema into grading, but I think in this situation it might be warranted. If a student takes on a particularly large and complicated project, they should not be penalized for unfinished work.
Saturday April 5, 2008 at 3:16 pm
I also feel as though the fishbowl on Monday gave us some great improvements, and some more structure to what we are going to try to do with the wiki site. I really agree with the idea of having different sub-groups, and those who want to write about something or have involvement with something will form a group based on similar interest… and go from there. As for turning out like a myspace page… I don’t think should really be a concern. The target audience is still in question.. but I think it is a good idea that we keep it a bit minimal seeing as though it will be hard to keep the site going once we are done with class for the semester. Whoever stumbles their way upon it or hears of it will also become an audience. I think we are making some good progress and we will soon be on our way to the actual creation of something.
Sunday April 6, 2008 at 12:35 pm
So, last weeks fishbowl was pretty interesting. I agreed with the group that the scope should be narrowed because it seems like a more realistic idea. I think we should be honest with ourselves that the rest of the semester is coming up quick, and pretty soon finals etc are going to be started and when will anyone have time to create this massive project? I think it is imperative that we begin to assign or designate who is going to focus on what in order to complete the project properly and on time. Also, in terms of the evaluation of work, I don’t think that there should be grades depending on how many hours are logged into the project. Depending on what topic you are assigned the times designated to each might be different. Anyways, It would be great if in next class we could make some headway in figuring out who is going to do what. In terms of the audience it IS going to be on the internet, and the target audience for the internet is technically anyone so we should do what we are interested in and just get it out there!
Monday April 7, 2008 at 10:49 am
i definitely agree that the fishbowl went well last week and we were on a clear path to making a final decision, the only thing is when are we finally going to get there!?! I agree with Sedona that if we do not make some headway now with this huge project then we are going to be in definite trouble when the end of the semester assignments and finals start. I think we should start to really map out the exact topics and number of pages we are planning on doing so we can begin to do this especially because we will have to learn how to make it snazzyy so people are interested in looking at it. I think this project is a really good learning experience and we should not be graded based on how many hours you put in but rather how interested you are in participating with the whole group. I think when we split up to do different aspects of the Class Wiki that as long as everyone is involved and an active participant in this then they should do well. It should not be based on how many physical hours you put into it. Today is the day to start giving out assingments and organize our plans so lets get going with it pleasee!!
Monday April 7, 2008 at 12:16 pm
Splitting up in to groups sounds like the best idea we’ve had so far. It will be a good way to get the ball rolling and then decide which direction we’re going in. I’m a firm believer that we don’t have to have every single aspect of our idea set in stone before we begin. Like I stated before we need to get the ides flowing, and then once we have an idea in the direction that we’re going we can then make some more concrete decisions. It is kinda like when you write a paper, you usually write the intro and the title AFTER you’ve written the body and conclusion. Otherwise you think you are going in one direction and then in the end you found you went in a completely different direction then you originally thought.
Monday April 7, 2008 at 1:52 pm
I think there has been a lot of good things adressed by other students and feel like everyone is starting to be on the same page. Like others mentioned I think breaking things down into groups and figuring out what those groups want to do would be a good idea. I dont really know how we should do that though. I also thought some good concerns about time and target audience were brought up. I like Sedona said I dont think we really need to worry about a target audience right now, because what ever we do will bring a audience. Unless we plan on having some people do advertisement for the wiki page and need to know exactly who they are trying to reach we dont really need to worry about it. Like others have mentioned I think time is a huge thing right now. As things start moving I think they will begin to go faster but it would not be fun to get stuck with a huge work load the week of finals.
Monday April 7, 2008 at 2:10 pm
I was not in class for this fishbowl…yet it seems the class is still stuck on some of the same issues that we were stuck on weeks ago. However, I am happy to read about the progress that was made. I am still also in favor of breaking off into smaller groups. I feel that this would help to keep us organized. In addition to that, I like the idea of focusing “inward,” with keeping the idea of extending to an outer audidence a possibility. Why are we try so hard to specifically define our outer audience?
As far as grading goes, I do not think that assessing hours is a fair way to go about it, as what takes one individual 30 minutes to do might take another 10. Looking forward to this week’s discussions.
Monday April 14, 2008 at 1:47 pm
I believe that we spend too much time discussing something, not making a concrete decision, and going back to the same things week after week. We need to move on from the idea of the target audience. I think for what we want to do as content can touch many people not just ourselves. And if people do not want to come to our Wiki page, then that is fine and it can be just for us. I like the idea of dividing ourselves into subgroups to make decisions. We have a large class and it is hard to get everyone to agree on things. I think if we all create something that represents us and our time here at Umass then we will have a successful page. I like the idea of maybe a magazine cover for the home page. I believe that in order for us to have a great page it needs to be visually appealing and has to be easy to navigate around. I believe the fair way to assign grades is by the quality of our work. Going by hours does not make much sense to me. It may take me much longer to accomplish something than someone who is completely computer savvy. The quality of the actual work and what is produced on the page should be what we look at to grade.
Saturday August 16, 2008 at 4:05 pm
[...] class fishbowled and discussed the assignment. The results of the fisbowl prompted Steph to post an update to her blog, and the comments in this post seemed to me to be a classic inhale-exhale [...]
Saturday August 16, 2008 at 10:11 pm
[...] of Steph’s other class did so, taking into account the views of others is helpful. Abccccc, communicates agreeance with teammates. They share a willingness to do what the other group members wish, without ever mentioning ideas of [...]